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Mindbody Podcast

The BOLD Show | Episode 05 | Digital Marketing


Your digital marketing strategy should help solve problems that your customers are facing. In this episode of the Mindbody BOLD show, founder Ryan Deiss shares his advice on how content plays a role in digital marketing.


(Mike) In this episode, I’m here with Ryan Deiss, the co-founder and CEO of, which provides digital marketing training and certifications to small and mid-sized businesses. Ryan’s digital media and e-commerce group,, owns and operates hundreds of properties. And he’s also a bestselling author and is considered to be one of the top experts in the digital marketing area today.


Growing a small business isn’t easy, and to be successful we know three things for sure: You have to work hard. You have to be bold. And you must constantly learn. We’re gathering some of the best minds in the business world to share their ideas and strategies with you, so you can grow your business easier, be more profitable, and have a lot more fun being a business owner. We are on a mission to connect the world of wellness, and this is The Mindbody BOLD Show.


(Mike Arce) What’s up, everyone? I’m Mike Arce, and welcome back to another episode of The BOLD Show. Today, I’m here with Mr. Ryan Deiss of DigitalMarketer, and welcome to the show. (Ryan) Thanks for having me. (Mike) I am so excited to you have you on. Everyone that follows digital marketing, and everyone that wants to learn about how to be a better marketer online, they know who you are. Because you put out more content than anyone out there and you’ve helped more people, including me, on how to do everything when it comes to digital advertising. And in particular, you’ve put out some really great content to help people in the service space: fitness studios, massage, that kind of stuff. So, we are going to dive into that today, is that OK?


(Ryan) Yeah. (Mike) And I’m going to put you on the spot a little bit. I’m going to say, look, you are so good at what you do. (Ryan) Any time you have the preemptive compliment—where is it? It’s coming. It’s happening! (Mike) My mom used to say, “You’re so smart!” You are so good at what you do. I want people that are watching and listening to say, “I get it, I know online there’s an opportunity. I know there is a way to leverage it. I don’t know how to get started. “ I know we talked about this before, but shiny object syndrome, there are so many different things you could do. And every time I go to a new article or new conference, they are saying to do different things. So, let’s just streamline it, like the most important things.  


(Ryan) So, funny enough, this process, it’s the same any time we go into a new business, and we are always starting new businesses. Online, brick and mortar, the process is always the same and we know it works. I always want to start with: What is the ideal sales conversation?  So when the phone rings, what do I want the person on the other end of the line to be saying? How do I want that conversation to flow? And a conversation can take place as an actual face-to-face conversation like we are having now, or it can take place online—a video, or words on a page. But what are those words? Because what I want to build if we are going to do this, is I want to create something where the experience is just one consistent flow that just happens.

So, in this case, I want to ask: Who do I want to talk to? If we are talking about the ideal sales conversation, it is the who, the where, and the what. Now the where is, I want it to be over the phone. So, I want them to call in to request something. So now I need the what. What is the conversation that I want them to have? This is where a lot of businesses get a little bit sideways because the conversation they want to have as a business owner is, “OK, it’s my understanding that you would like to give me money. So, here’s how you go about giving me money.” And so the advertising that we run is, sign up today, it’s only $20 a month. And we wonder why our digital advertising isn’t working?  Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, “I need to go and join a yoga studio.” I mean some people do, and you are going to get those. That’s going to be your low-hanging fruit. But it’s not enough to scale. So we have to ask ourselves, what are the things people do wake up wondering? What are those questions that people do ask? And the best way to figure this out is to actually talk to your customers.


I’ll tell you how we figured this out at DigitalMarketer. When we launched our certifications, we launched DigitalMarketer HQ, a brand new program. It’s designed to train new teams. I went and stood at the booth at our own event and I talked to people, and I asked them questions and had conversations. And what I listened for is: What questions did I ask? What responses did it elicit where the sale was a lay down? They just said, “OK, I’m in.” And what I found when I talked with someone, I asked, “How big is your marketing team? How big is your sales & marketing team?” And they are like, “oh, three to five people.” Ok, great, so do you plan on growing, or do want to up-level that team? Do you want to grow that in-house digital marketing team?    Yes, absolutely.   (Ryan) OK, would you like to use our tools to train and enable that team so you don’t have to? Yes.  


(Ryan) So what did I need to know? I needed to know that they had a marketing team, or they wanted to build a marketing team. Now I can produce content that, when someone reads that content or requested that content, it started the conversation. So for example, we could put out a webinar on how to build an in-house digital marketing team.

Now, on the other side, for somebody who registers for that webinar, I can say, “Hey, this is Ryan, CEO of Thank you so much for registering for a webinar on how to build an in-house digital marketing team. I’m guessing the reason you registered for a webinar on how to build an in-house marketing team is because you plan on building an in-house digital marketing team? Assuming that’s the case, we’ve got tools that will help you do that.”


So the ideal structure of an ideal sales conversation is: Since this is true since X is true, then Y is the next logical step. Since X is true—I know you want this thing—then Y—meaning our product or service—is the next logical step.

So, we know where we want it to end. We want it to end with a phone call. Where does the relationship begin? It begins with their thing. And then it’s the job of the content to bridge the gap between where they are right now with our solution. Because never forget, I don’t care what you are selling, I don’t care if you are selling yoga, I don’t care if you are selling knives, or makeup brushes, or digital marketing training and certification. If you are in business, your job is to move people from the less desirable “before” state, to a more desirable “after” state. That is your job. That’s what you do. Your product, your service—it is a vehicle that transports people from less desirable before states to more desirable after states. And the role of content, once you figure it out, where you want them to end up, the role of content is to act as that communication bridge. To meet them where they are.


(Mike) So, let’s talk about the content. Because you hear that, I hear that. We think, OK cool, there are some cool ways to distribute that content. Let’s talk about somebody listening that goes, “Content—so what, am I going to write a blog?”   (Ryan) Yeah, I mean content could be anything. A blog post could be one. (Mike) The easiest way for her to get the message out to people in a five-mile radius. (Ryan) Yeah, typically video.   (Mike) So, take the video and then what do you do with it? (Ryan) So once we figure out the content—that conversation driver—now we need to amplify that. How do we amplify that? We amplify that through advertising. So I know the content I need to produce because I know the conversation I want to have. At the end, I’m going to deliver this content. I’m going to say, “Hey, if you want to do this, take the next step.” Since I know you want this end result, give us a call, or go check us out, we’ve got some cool stuff for you.  


The content informs the conversation. Now we have to amplify it. Just because you produce content doesn’t mean people are going to watch it. This isn’t Field of Dreams. If you build it, they won’t come. So, you have to amplify it. And the best way to amplify it is through local, social advertising: Facebook. Start on Facebook. You can go on Facebook for five bucks a day. Set up a campaign targeting your demographic in a local area, and unlike everybody else who’s advertising on Facebook, who’s advertising a logo, or “come in for a free session,” you look different because you are leading with content. You’re leading with value in advance. And now when someone has come, and they’ve viewed that content, they’ve gotten value from it, they feel good about your brand. Some of them will immediately take action and go sign up. Most of them won’t. But if we leverage retargeting—


(Mike) Really quick, define retargeting. (Ryan) Retargeting is a form of advertising where, when you visit a webpage or watch a video, now Google and Facebook know that happened. And your ads can continue to follow that person through Facebook, or all over Google’s network. So, if you’ve ever been to a website, and now it seems that you are seeing their ads all over the place—that’s retargeting.

Retargeting done poorly is one of the most obnoxious experiences in the world. Retargeting done well is great. Because you are primarily seeing the brands that you know, like, and trust.

So, again, advertise, amplify, content. People see it, some of them take an action, and they may immediately call. The ones that don’t, now you have to follow-up the advertising. And now you can advertise in your retargeting: Hey, give us a call to schedule a free session. Give us a call. When you sign up today, there’s a free yoga mat as a bonus. And when they see that ad, they don’t see an ad from a stranger. They see an ad from someone who gave them some good content. Someone who went first.


So, the way the process goes, you figure out the result you want—the action you want to take on the call. What’s the conversation you want to have that will lead them to seeing your solution as the ideal vehicle to transport them from that before state to that after state? Then, we produce content that will trigger that conversation. We amplify that content through advertising, and we leverage retargeting to follow-up with the people who don’t take action right then.

(Mike) You advertise to the retargeting list? (Ryan) Yes. If you do that, you will build up a massive following, a big retargeting audience, email lists. But what everybody wants to do, they want to run ads that drive them to a form to get them to opt-in. Don’t do that. Top a funnel content. Give value first. The idea of: So you are telling me to buy advertising, that goes to a page where I’m not even asking people for money. Or not even asking people to opt-in? I’m just giving them content?” Yes. Step one, give value in advance: Hey, can I buy you a drink? This is what we do in dating.


And when we get to business, we think the same rules don’t apply. And it does. It’s not B to B, it’s not B to C. It’s H to H, human to human. Give value first. Deliver content. But thankfully, because of retargeting, we don’t have to hope that they take action in that first meeting. We have the ability to follow up, even if we don’t get their email address. That’s how you can build a big following. And that’s how you can do it really inexpensively, especially in a local market. Seriously, less than $5 a day.  


(Mike) And the crazy thing, too, is fitness is not one of those things where it is like a toothache. Like, I got to do this today. Some people sit on it for a little while. They get a bug for a minute. But the pain sometimes has to be bad enough, or the desire has to be bad enough to go, alright, today I’m going to go to the yoga studio. Today I’m going to the gym for the first time. (Ryan) And you need to stay there out in the front. You need to be there, out in front, when they are ready. And you need to have gone first, so when they see your ad, they don’t even remember why they like you. They’ve long since forgotten about the content, but they remember that there was something about that—there is a reason they should call you and not the competitor down the street.   (Mike) Like, if they see you at the grocery store, they are compelled to say hi. I’ve seen you before. (Ryan) Yeah, yeah. (Mike) And not only $5 on Facebook a day, which would be awesome. You could reach thousands of people that. But even YouTube ads.  


(Ryan) YouTube ads, absolutely. That is where I’d go next. I’d start with Facebook because it’s really simple. The way you would start is, you would produce—anyone who has ever done a Facebook post, congratulations, you know how to produce an ad on Facebook. Because all you are really doing is boosting that post. You are sponsoring that post. That post could be a video. They could be watching your video right there, without necessarily even going to your page.  And you can set the retargeting pixel for the people that watch that video. So, now they start seeing your ads.

So if you are going to make content, your logo should be present, maybe you’re wearing a shirt with your company’s name on it when you deliver the content. Or you are standing in front of your building so that, when they see the ad later, they associate the two, consciously or subconsciously.


Yeah, if it works on Facebook, by all means, go to YouTube. You can go to Google. I like social. I would start with social. You can advertise in such a tight area, and everybody’s there. They are all there. Facebook only has every man, woman, and child on planet earth. That’s where I recommend starting.   (Mike) Ryan, I don’t want to take too much of your time. I just want to get some really great tactical stuff. That alone right there can totally transform these businesses. Because a lot of them aren’t putting out content at all. If there are, they are not spending $5 a day. And they are not doing it without a hook. They are not thinking, value first. And: Can I buy you a drink? And I think that’s really important. And you’ve built, not only your business, Digitalmarketer, from it, but you have many businesses, and all of them lead with content, correct?


(Ryan) They’ve all been built with the strategy I just described. What is the action we want them to ultimately take? What’s the conversation that needs to lead to that action? How do we produce content that will ultimately drive that conversation? Whether that content is a blog post, video, or webinar. Whatever it is, how do we produce content that’s going to drive that conversation, bridge the gap? Now, how do we amplify that content through advertising and leverage retargeting to follow up with the people that don’t buy the first time?

That’s how every business we’ve ever owned has been built, and it works for local brick and mortar, it works for online, off-line, enterprise, sales. You name it, it works. Because there is no B to B, there is no B to C, there is only H to H. You’re a human. If you talk and treat your customers like they are humans if you act like it’s a romantic relationship—because in a real sense it is. If it would be weird to do it in a romantic setting or interpersonal setting, then you shouldn’t do it in a business setting.  


(Mike) You are asking them to choose you. (Ryan) Yeah. (Mike) So, everybody watching and listening—obviously, he’s got a lot of content. You can learn how to do a lot of this stuff just with his site alone. So, if any of you guys are thinking, man, I don’t even know how to get started on that. He’s got a couple of really great books: Invisible Sales Machine, which is a really great book—great on email campaign strategy (Ryan) Yeah, good for follow-up, if you get their email address.   (Mike) And this book, Digital Marketing for Dummies. This one is incredible. A ton of really great stuff in here as well. Your blog is just filled with case studies, some with the fitness space. So, you can go to and check out his blog there. That’s all free. Free, strategic, step-by-step stuff on how to get there.


(Ryan) Google $10 a day traffic plan. We’ve got blog posts that walk you through the process of getting started with the same type of Facebook campaign I talked about. The content is there, we’ll show you how to do it, totally free and I know it works. I hope everybody does it. I want to see them succeed. The mission of DigitalMarketers is to double the size of 10,000 businesses by 2020. That’s how we can make our impact, and this is how we are able to do it. So please, avail yourself to those resources.  


(Mike) Awesome. Ryan, thanks so much for providing us with this information and giving us the resources we need to succeed. And for everybody that was watching and listening today, thank you so much. I hope you go and start implementing all this amazing stuff so you can start seeing the success in your business, too. And we will see you next week.  


Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like this episode, then subscribe to our podcast on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher, and to our YouTube channel to never miss an episode. You can get all the links by going to Thanks, and see you next time.  


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