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Mindbody Podcast

The BOLD Show | Episode 01 | Social Customer Care


Digital marketing expert Jay Baer knows a lot about customer care on social media. Join Mindbody BOLD Show host Mike Arce as he interviews Jay about the importance of customer service in the success of any business and why it’s important to respond to negative reviews and posts on social media.


[00:00:00] (Mike Arce) Today, I’m here with digital marketing celebrity Jay Baer, who’s created five multi-million dollar companies and is the President of Convince & Convert, a consulting firm who has helped the world’s most iconic brands like The United Nations, Adidas, 3M, and Oracle. Jay is a New York Times bestselling author of five books, and today he’s going to be sharing all the great things we’ve learned in his book, Hug Your Haters, with you.  

[00:00:23] Growing a small business isn’t easy. And to be successful we know three things for sure: You have to work hard; you have to be bold, and you must constantly learn. We’re gathering some of the best minds in the business world to share their ideas and strategies with you, so you can grow your business easier, be more profitable, and have a lot more fun being a business owner. We’re on a mission to connect the world of wellness, and this is the Mindbody BOLD show.   [00:01:02]

(Mike) What’s up, everybody?! Mike Arce here. Welcome back to another episode of the BOLD Show. And I am here with Mr. Jay Baer, one of the top guys, most recognized influencers out there when it comes to customer service and using social media to be able to deliver an amazing experience for not only your customers but any onlookers for your company. What’s up, and welcome to the show. (Jay Baer) Thank you so much; ready to be Bold!   (Mike) Okay, so now, you just wrote a great book called Hug Your Haters, which I’ve loved. I’ve read it a couple of times.   (Jay) Artfully placed here in the shot! (Mike) It’s coincidence, pure coincidence. I thought it was incredible because there were just tons of stats that went into this, that I don’t think the average local business owner really understands how customer service plays a role in the success of their company.  

[00:01:45] (Jay) Yeah, you know there’s a funny story about that. The book was not originally supposed to be called Hug Your Haters, because I had a whole different thesis, a whole different premise for the book when I started to write it. The idea was that speed is the most important thing, that speed is the killer app. The companies that are the fastest are the best. We are in this environment now, that if you are quick and nimble you will succeed, and that is the most important thing. But unlike most authors, I thought, you know what I should do—and before I write a whole book about this—I should make sure that that is actually true. So, I worked with this company called Edison Research that did this huge study on the science of complaint. We talked with thousands of Americans, thousands, about who complains, where they complain, and why they complain and how. And what I discovered, Mike is that it is not actually true. Not as true as I thought. Speed is definitely important. I talk about that in the book. But it’s not the most important thing. The most important thing is just to show up. Right. It turns out that a third of all complaints are never answered. Never. No response is a response, right. No response is a response that says, we don’t care enough about your complaint to even acknowledge it.  And that’s the bigger issue. So that’s why the title of the book switched from “Under an Hour,” which was the original title, to Hug Your Haters. And it’s much more about making sure that you are answering every customer, in every channel, every time, especially in social media.    

[00:03:03] (Mike) And you’ve interviewed over 40 companies, in order to . . . and the research that went into this was an incredible study. And we have a ton of stats that we are going to be able to go through today in this episode. (Jay) It’s a special math episode! (Mike) I just feel like when the stats are there they tell a different story. They make things more real.  

[00:03:23] (Jay) Look, here’s the thing. There’s a lot of great customer service books . . . some of them are on this shelf. But most books in customer service are sort of distilled wisdom, it is common sense.  Here is how you handle people if they are upset, and here is how you treat customers. That doesn’t make them a bad book, but there is no science around it. This book is really rooted in research and science. And it’s really the first book that’s about modern customer service. Because it really does talk a lot about social media, WhatsApp, and WeChat, and all these different ways that you can communicate with customers, that frankly two years ago, three years ago, that wouldn’t have even been an issue.    

[00:03:54] (Mike) Right. One of the things I’ve learned as a trend, and I’m sure you have too, because you’ve worked with a ton of local businesses, and I’ve worked with a few hundred already . . . and whenever you ask them “Hey, tell me about your customer service, the service you provide to your customers.” They all say, “Service is great. Customers love us.” All of them, there’s not one business owner out there that doesn’t think that their customer service is great. They just need more leads, right. And what your book stated, your research, was that 80% of businesses believe they give superior customer service. However, only 8% of businesses have their customers saying that their business is superior. Yesterday’s great is today’s mediocre.    

[00:04:34] (Jay) 80%—that’s actually research from Bayne that I cite in the book—but 80% say they deliver, not OK, but superior customer service. And 8% agree. That’s the stat—Mike, maybe you’ve seen this—71% of people say they are excellent drivers. And there is no way that’s true! We all know that’s not true, but everybody believes it. Customer service is the same way. No business owner thinks their customer service is bad, but yet as consumers, right, we all know that customer service is manifestly mediocre all the time. It’s just a weird disconnect.  

[00:05:10] (Mike) One of the things, too, that you talk a lot about was competition in the area. So you can say, yeah, but we’re better than that guy. Oh, but the guy down the street, he doesn’t even do this, or he doesn’t do that. But it’s not so much . . . your direct competition is your competition; everyone is your competition, because customer service . . . the bar is being raised on all platforms.   (Jay) Yeah, there is this term called “liquid expectations.” Customer expectations are liquid now. What that means is that customer expectations slosh between categories, right. People don’t think about customer service in the context of a fitness studio, or in the context of a dentist, or in the context of a lawyer, or a collision repair shop. They think about customer experience and customer service in the context of all businesses. So in a very real sense, Zappos, Southwest Airlines, Nordstrom, Ritz Carlton—companies like that are teaching your customers what to expect, what is possible. (Mike) What is superior. (Jay) Yeah, they’re not going to say, “Well, we get great service from Nordstrom, but these guys are only in this industry, so it’s OK if service is mediocre there.” That doesn’t work anymore. Customers don’t compartmentalize their expectations like that. That’s not to say that it’s realistic or necessary that you meet that standard of the best companies in the world. But you can’t rely on people giving you a pass because of whatever industry you happen to be in.    

[00:06:33] (Mike) You know one of the things, too, that we talked a lot about, and I’m really appreciative that you did because it’s something I like to talk about, too, is, a lot of companies will spend more money and time on getting a customer than on retaining a customer. And an increase in 5% of customer retention, as you mention, could actually boost profits by 25 to 85%. How does that math work out? (Jay) There’s a geometric impact to keeping customers. Because customers who stay longer tell other people—word of mouth. So, then they attract even more customers at no expense. When you have higher retention, your marketing and advertising expenses go down.   (Mike) Because the cost of acquisition is not there. (Jay) Yeah, it all creates this ripple-in-the-pond effect. There is this amazing stat from research that Adobe did—that’s not in the book because it happened since the book was published—that says, on average (different industries are going to vary based on category), but in general, 80% of most companies’ revenue comes from existing customers. OK, 80%.  

[00:07:33] Most companies spend, on average, 2% of revenue on customer retention. So think about that. You are investing 2%, to get 80%. That’s crazy.  Look at it this way: How many people are there— probably some watching right now—who have a masters degree, an MBA in sales and marketing? Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands. Like there’s a lot of MBAs with a concentration in sales and marketing. How many MBAs are there with a concentration in customer service or customer retention? The answer is zero. There are lots of books out there about growth hacking. How many books are there about retention hacking? Zero. Right. So in general, we are putting too much emphasis on customer acquisition, and not enough emphasis in customer retention. And I say that as a marketing consultant. So if I say that, come on.  


(Mike) Do you think it’s because people don’t initially identify the problem? Because in marketing, they know if they have a lead problem. But if everyone thinks they give great customer service, do they think they have a customer service problem? (Jay) I think it’s because to really address retention, not only do you have to solve customer service problems, in many cases, we have to solve a fundamental operational problem. And that’s hard. Harder than going out and getting the next customer. (Mike) Another thing I thought was pretty interesting, your research showed that men actually complained more often than women. (Jay) Was that a surprise? Is your wife watching this show, because I think you should just stop right now. It’s going to get you into real danger.   (Mike) Not so much with the complaining. I just feel that my wife will speak her mind a little bit more. (Jay) It depends on the business. So what we found in the research—and I’m not certain if all these stats are in the book, because it’s a whole other study we pulled from—but men are much more likely to complain about particular business types. So, cable, cable television, financial services, automotive. Women are more likely to complain about restaurants, retail, things like that.  

[00:09:30] (Mike) Got it. So it goes deeper. (Jay) On the whole, men complain more. But it is very different based on type of business.   (Mike) And you talk a lot about on-stage, versus off stage haters. So first, let’s define a hater. And then let’s define what you mean about on-stage and off-stage. Explain about the differences. (Jay) OK, so in the language of the book, when I say hater, I mean anybody who complains about your business. Now just because someone complains, are they a hater? No. But look, Hug Your Haters is a way better book title than “Answer All Your Complaints.” Are we good with that? So, there’s a reason the book is called that.


But when I say hater in the book, we just mean somebody that complains. Now for a long time, I don’t know, a couple thousand years, like since the time of Pompeii, businesses who had customers who were unhappy, who complained, all those interactions took place in private. Right, whether it was face-to-face, mostly back in the day. And then you could call or write a letter, or send a telegram, I guess, or maybe a fax if you so chose. And then eventually email. That’s all private. So if a customer complains and you treat that complaint and you embrace them, great. If you blow them off, OK. But nobody really knows what’s happening.


Now, more and more complaints are taking place, what we call, on-stage as opposed to off-stage. On-stage means those complaints happen in public. Right, so social media: Facebook, Twitter, mostly, some Instagram. Ratings and review sites, so Yelp, TripAdvisor, Angie’s List, Home Advisor, that whole swath. And then discussion boards and forums. All of that is in public. The research shows that today (again, the data is going to vary by industry) but on average, 60% of complaints today are off-stage—Phone, email. 40% are on-stage—social media, ratings and review sites, discussion boards and forums. The big deal here, and the reason this book exists frankly is that when customer service becomes a spectator sport—which is what it is today—how you handle customers is more and more important. Because it has larger economic consequences for your business. Because if somebody complains and you do a terrible job of handling the complaint or you blow them off, a bunch of people could see that, right. And then, maybe they want to leave, or they don’t want to become a customer. So, in that way, now that customer service is a spectator sport, more than ever, customer service is marketing.    

[00:12:02] (Mike) One of the things you talk about: When customers complain in an off-stage manner, they anticipate a reply. So if I’m complaining through email or by phone, I’m expecting a reply 91% of the time. (Jay) 91%. Look, I mean, if you call a business, you anticipate they are going to call you back. If you email them, you anticipate they are going to email you back. Now it may not happen as quickly as you’d like, but you are probably going to get an answer. So when a business does that, you’re not like, “Hell yeah! They emailed me back.”  You’re like, “Well, yeah. They emailed me back.” (Mike) Yeah, expectations. That’s all it is. You may be impressed the 9%. Right, but on social media, on an on-stage manner, customers expect a response 42% of the time. So if you are able to respond 100% of the time, you are blowing the minds of 60% of the people.  

[00:12:55] (Jay) Yep, that’s right. Think about your own life. If you complain on Facebook, or Twitter, or Yelp, or TripAdvisor, or to a discussion board committed to whatever industry—you kind of, sort of, maybe hope that they will get back to you. But you are not expecting it. You’re not thinking, yep, they are definitely going to answer. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. Because that’s just how business is today. And so when you do get that response, you’re like, “Wow.” These guys are paying attention. They are answering customers in all these different places. That’s really fantastic, and it creates this advocacy bump that we actually measured in the book. We measured how much customers are more likely to advocate on your behalf when they get a response.    

[00:13:32] (Mike) And we are going to go through a couple of examples of complaints that you actually have in there, that I really liked. And also how these companies appropriately responded in the on-stage manner, that actually delivered a favorable response. Because one of the things you talk about is customer advocacy. So, define customer advocacy. And then, how replying appropriately in an on-stage manner cannot only affect it positively but also a deferred maintenance.   (Jay) Absolutely. When we talk about customer advocacy, we actually measure that very particularly with a very specific methodology. We used a variation of what’s called the Net Promoter Score. It’s a system people may have heard of in some corners. It’s a question that you typically ask customers that says, on a scale of 0 to 10, how likely are you to recommend our company to a friend or family member?  

[00:14:26] (Mike) Now, those of you who are watching and listening in, you probably didn’t know what he meant when he said Net Promoter Score if you didn’t hear that term before. But I’m sure most of you have already seen it in a survey because it is the most popular and the most effective right now as well. (Jay) It gives you the one number. That concept—0-10 in the question—was developed by the research consultancy, Bayne, and a guy by the name of Fred Reichheld, who actually came up with that whole system. And now, of course, it’s in place everywhere. I just got an email a second ago from Delta Airlines—0-10. What’s your thing? Everybody sees it. So, we use that same framework for measuring advocacy when people do or do not get a reply to a complaint.


So if you complain to a business and they get back to you, they answer your complaint. It increases advocacy. Meaning you are more likely to tell people, “Yeah, these guys are great.” If you don’t get an answer, it decreases advocacy correspondingly, which stands to reason. It depends on the channel, but somewhere between 15% and 30% increase in advocacy if you get a reply. And as much as a 50% drop in advocacy if you don’t get a reply, especially phone and email. Because we talked about, you expect to get a reply. So if you leave someone a voicemail in a business complaint context and they don’t get back to you (whistle sound), and that happens all of the time.  

[00:15:52] (Mike) I took these stats from the book, and I thought it was so great. The three of them are: 1) responding to a customer phone complaint, 2) an email complaint, and 3) than anywhere on social media. So when you respond to a customer phone complaint you increase the advocacy by 10%, which isn’t that much. But if you don’t, you reduce customer advocacy by 51%.  By email, it’s an increase of 8%; not responding, reduce it by 56%. So relatively the same, because again, we expect it. Responding to a complaint anywhere in social media has double the impact of answering the telephone, generating a 20% advocacy lift in average. But not responding to a complaint in social media decreases the advocacy by 43%. That’s crazy. And one of the things, too, that I really liked is 32% of the people who have complained on social media are happy with the time it took to get a reply. That’s despite that 63% of the complaints addressed were done within 24 hours. Today 39% of people who have complained on social media want a reply within 60 minutes, and the average is really just 5 hours.   (Jay) Yeah, when we do consulting for companies in my organization, we really try to get everybody to, whenever possible, reply to all social media inquiries and complaints within 60 minutes. That way, you are keeping everybody happy. And if you just set that as your goal, if you are going to execute on that, you’re going to be in pretty good shape.    

[00:17:13] (Mike) And people go to review sites to really commit. It’s their main hub of research because—I can look at your website, but let’s face it, what are you going to put on your website? (Jay) It’s all positive testimonials!   (Mike) Everything you want me to see, right. And if I find stuff on YouTube or social, it’s all stuff you want me to see. (Jay) You always want to gut check it. You always want to double check it. (Mike) And review sites like Yelp, and TripAdvisor, and Google Reviews, it allows me to get unbiased information from everybody. Bright-Local did research. And you said that people are trusting reviews, as much as recommendations from a friend or family member, like online reviews, is was like 80% (Jay) It’s actually up now. They redid the research, I think it’s 82% now of Americans trust ratings and reviews, as long as they believe them to be authentic, and it’s on a good site. 82% trust ratings and reviews as much as they trust recommendations from someone they actually know. Which is weird, right. Because you don’t know who these people are on these review sites. This guy could be a fool. But we sort of believe in that concept of the wisdom of the crowd. And we go, yeah, enough people have experienced this product, this service, this whatever.  I buy stuff online all the time. All the time. I can’t imagine doing so without looking at reviews. Like, why would you? Who has so much cash laying around—well, this could be a colossal mistake, but I don’t care, I’m going for it. Everybody is checking ratings and reviews all of the time. And so many businesses, especially small businesses, are just terrible at ratings and reviews. They are bad at asking for them. When they get a negative one, they freak out, and they take it personally, and they make it worse. It doesn’t have to be that hard, but it is for a lot of people.  

[00:18:57] (Mike) Well, one of the things you talk about as well that I really like, and Simon Sinek talks a lot about this stuff when it comes to chemicals in the brain when certain things happen. And when you get a negative review, it releases, it’s not so much all the ramifications that you think may come from it. (Jay) You go haywire. (Mike) Yeah, there is a chemical release, called cortisol, that will put you in a state of reacting quickly and not thinking. And that can last, you said, up to 26 hours. (Jay) Especially for small businesses, right? When you get a negative review, it’s like someone is telling you your baby is ugly. You are like bro! And sometimes, you sort of feel like that customer is viewing you too harshly, or their experience or their perception of the experience is incorrect. But here’s the thing—their perception is their reality. Right? And you can disagree all you want, but the problem I have with a lot of people and how they handle reviews is they think they have some sort of time machine. Like by arguing it, they are going to change that customer’s belief of what actually happened. Look, you can’t fix what’s happened. You can’t change the customer’s perspective. They believe the soup was cold. If you are like, no, the soup was hot. OK? That’s not going to fix it. (Mike) Their perception is real. (Jay) Yeah, exactly, it’s their reality. You cannot change what has happened. But you have total control over what happens next. Total control. So you can choose to ignore it, and just let it go, which is a terrible idea. You should answer every review, in my estimation. You can argue about it, which is not a good plan either. Or, you can engage rationally and reasonably, and apologize, and try to get some more information and learn from it and move on.  

[00:20:46] (Mike) One other thing I want to share with everybody is where they should be spending a lot of their time. So for these on-stage reviews, review sites are the biggest venue for customer complaints, at 55%. And Facebook holds 21% of the complaints. So that’s the bulk of it. The majority is on other social platforms. Why do you think Facebook? Obviously, they have the most volume. What is it about that platform, versus others, that allows the on-stage haters to? (Jay) Well, on Twitter, it’s volume and time spent. But also, people on Facebook, by definition are connected to friends, many of who may be thinking about experiencing or purchasing the same items. Right? So, it’s not only—are we going to complain on Facebook—but many times, it’s a warning shot. Like, I’m going to tell my friends, “Hey, I just had this experience with whatever. Don’t make that same mistake.” Or I really loved this particular experience, you guys should have that same experience. And so it’s not always so much on Facebook where people are complaining at a company. Let me say it this way, they are not necessarily complaining to a company. They are complaining about a company on Facebook. So they may tag them, and that’s one of the reasons you have this lower expectation for a reply on social media. Because it’s not like, hey, Southwest Airlines fixed my problem. It’s you just sort of griping about Southwest Airlines with your friends looking on.    

[00:22:13] (Mike) And you were saying that a lot of people just want an audience. Right? So talk a little about that. (Jay) Absolutely, they just want to go off. Look, if you are going to call or email if you are going to take the time to wait on hold and type out a whole email, you want an answer. You have a thing, and you need that thing fixed. It’s a very linear conversation. If you are on social or even Yelp or something like that, in some cases, you just might want an audience. You just want to spout off. Right. You want other people to go, “Yeah, go get ’em. Screw those guys. It’s the worst florist shop in Texas,” or whatever. You sort of want this group empathy wave to join you and your pitchfork and your torch. And that’s why, in some cases, you’ll see people writing things about businesses in social media and review sites that they probably wouldn’t write in an email. It’s a little more over the top, a little more aggressive because they are looking for other people to chime in.    

[00:23:13] (Mike) You talked earlier about when somebody leaves a bad review. It’s like saying your baby’s ugly. And we talked about, for these small business owners, these fitness studios, these spas, these salons—these places that are working their tail off to really deliver a superior service in what feels like a saturated market. They get one bad review and they feel like that’s going to hurt their business. But you mentioned something really interesting. Talk about the stat about two-thirds of customers trust reviews when they see both good and bad. (Jay) Yeah, we talked earlier about how important reviews are in people making decisions now, for about everything. That’s only true if they believe the reviews to be trustworthy. And what’s interesting is how people think about reviews as being trustworthy or not trustworthy is almost always dictated by the mathematical spread of those reviews. So if you’ve got all fives, people are like, no way, man. There’s no way it’s all fives. Somebody cooked the books here. They had either employees or friends. (Mike) You said nearly 95% of all consumers suspect censorship or fake reviews when they don’t see any bad scores, according to research and reviews. (Jay) And the same is true for you and for me. If you see all fives, there is no way. This has got to be fake. So that’s why it’s good. On this book, there is actually 108 Amazon reviews now, as we are recording this. It’s like 100 five-stars, five four-stars, and I think two one-stars that I love because it validates that these reviews are real. So you actually want some negativity.  Mathematically, and from an authority standpoint, it’s actually good news to have some negative ones.  

[00:24:54] (Mike) I want to read one of the bad reviews, and then I want to go into how this person replied and see what everybody thinks. “Too bad there wasn’t a ranking less than terrible”—This is for a hotel. “If you plan to stay here, don’t expect to sleep. There is a noisy bar here with music that goes until 2 a.m. Noisy bar patrons and the hotel doesn’t care. The front desk claims there was nothing they could do about the music roaring or the rowdy patrons screaming in the parking lot all night. “ So, that’s a tough review to swallow.   (Jay) I think I’ve stayed at that hotel. That’s not a review from me. But I’ve experienced that kind of hotel, for sure. That review was at TripAdvisor I think. (Mike) Yeah, the reply was excellent. “I would like to personally apologize for this series of unfortunate incidents that you have experienced during your stay with us. We continually try to do our very best for all of our guests, but unfortunately, sometimes we do fail. I will look into each issue that you have noted in an attempt to correct and improve our hotel policies. I would invite you to contact me personally, at (phone number), to discuss this with you further or email me. Regards, Murray Waiters, Hotel Manager.” So, tell me about this response, and why it was so great.  

[00:26:05] (Jay) Well, he doesn’t debate the fact that this happened, number one. Which is the first mistake a lot of people make in review response. He doesn’t say, “Well that’s not true.” So, he apologizes. Thanks that person for the feedback—and I want to talk a little bit more about that in a second—says that he is actually going to do something about it. He uses the word “policies” in there, which I don’t love. I’d prefer that that wasn’t there. It’s not a very customer friendly word, but that’s a quibble. He uses it, personally. Is truly sorry or appears to be sorry. Thanks, him for the feedback. Says he’s going to do something about it. Gives him a contact mechanism to follow up, and it’s from somebody authoritative in the organization. It’s from the manager in the hotel. Here is my personal email address and my actual name. So it checks all the boxes. So you actually feel better about that, don’t you? You just read it. Don’t you feel better about that organization? Now if you read that on TripAdvisor, I understand that they’ve got some noise issues, but this guy is on top of it. If you read that review and saw no reply, you’d be like, I don’t think I want to stay there.    

[00:27:13] (Mike) Right. And you know, one thing and a lot of people do this—we talk about the passive-aggressive ownership. There is a big difference between “I’m sorry this happened” versus “I’m sorry you feel this way.” That basically means it didn’t happen. (Jay) Yes, or I apologize if you feel some way. (Mike) Right, the last example I want to go through. This was for a frozen dessert. (Jay) Oh, I use this one on stage a lot in my speaking about the book. It’s one of my classic examples. It’s a great one. (Mike) He said, “Just bought this. Hoping to enjoy this ice cream while on a low-carb diet. Too bad this ‘ice-cream’—I put it in quotes because it tastes nothing like ice cream other than being cold—is absolutely disgusting. I got the cookie dough version, and literally licking the freezer burn ice shavings from the inside of the freezer would probably taste better than this. It’s definitely going back to the store for a refund.” The reply was excellent. The name of the person that wrote it, his title was, “Random Musings of a barefoot democratic hippy.”   “Sorry to hear this, Random Musings. While Wink (the name of the company) is definitely not ice cream, we do aim for an ice cream-like experience. The creator of Wink is a 25-year-old named Gabe who has Celiac disease and dairy intolerance. We do recommend letting your pint sit out for a few minutes before you dig in. If the store you purchased Wink in gives you trouble with the refund, please let us know. While we hope that everyone will love and enjoy Wink as much as we do, we realize that not everyone will. If we can help, please send an email to [email protected]  Thanks for giving Wink a try.”  

[00:28:54] (Jay) Unbelievable, right. Now, I want to go buy some of that because it was such a good response. This guy completely puts them on blast, and they are like, thanks for giving it a try. We really appreciate you taking the time to even sample it. And what I love about that, is that they used it as an opportunity to tell their story. So they used their response to, well let me tell you about Gabe. He’s our founder, he’s 25 and he’s got Celiac disease and dairy intolerance. He built this product because he wanted something to eat, and it’s not for everybody. But they used their response as a way to tell a brand story. And they did it in a way that’s not sketchy. Like these guys aren’t trying to sell me something. But they understand. What Wink understands is that customer service is a spectator sport. So they are not going to get this guy back as a customer. He hated it, hated it. But, they could neutralize him while also communicating something to the other people who are looking on that helps the brand. A really good example.    


(Mike) One of the things, too. Jimmy Kimmel has a popular segment called “Celebrities read mean Tweets.”  And if you guys haven’t seen it, it’s really funny. You can go to YouTube and type in “celebrities read mean Tweets.” And it’s basically, like, an Al Pacino, or a Brad Pitt would basically have them Tweeting negative things. (Jay) It’s become very popular. The Dallas Cowboys do it now, everybody is doing it. (Mike) And so now you talk about some businesses that are using this same style to actually reply to negative reviews using video. So talk about that for the last thing before we head out.  

[00:30:18] (Jay) Well, you know, I think in general, the more human you can be in your reply, the better off it is. We trust people. We don’t trust companies. In fact, Nielsen will tell you that we trust individuals twice as much as we trust companies. So the more that you can make your response feel like it comes from a person—we talked about Murray a few moments ago, the General Manager at the hotel. That works partially because it’s from Murray. It’s not from the hotel. It’s from Murray. And video is the very best way to do that same thing. Because, by definition, it’s human. It’s not a video of a logo talking to you—although that would be weird. It’s a video of a person talking to you. So the more that you can address negative comments, or even positive comments for that matter, with video, the more warm and human and sympathetic you become. And there are lots of ways to do that. You can do it on Twitter, you can do it on YouTube, on FaceBook, you can do it in email. There’s lots of ways you can use video in a customer service context. And I’m glad to see more companies starting to do that.  

[00:31:16] (Mike) According to Jay’s book and the research he’s done, $500 billion each year is invested in marketing, getting new customers, compared with just $9 billion invested in customer service. So businesses spend that much more on getting customers than keeping customers. Everybody that knows Jay, and that knows me, knows that we are huge advocates of marketing and advertising, and lead generation is excellent. But, your marketing can mean so much more. Your return on investment can be so much more. It’s all about your lifetime customer value. (Jay) If you are not losing guys out the back door. It makes marketing pretty tough if you are constantly running on this treadmill. It’s hard. (Mike) It’s very hard. Marketing is great, and I know it’s exciting. But really, really work hard on looking at some of the people, like Nordstrom, and some of the people you mentioned as the leaders. And find out ways that you can get inspired by some of these guys to deliver a much, much better—superior—customer service.    

[00:32:11] (Jay) Yeah, and I just want people to understand that I’m not suggesting that you bend over backward. I’m not saying that the customer is always right. And whatever the customer wants is fine. That’s not what I’m saying. The customer is not always right. Sometimes the customer is totally wrong. What I am saying, though, is that the customer should always be heard. That it is in your best interest to reply to all customer complaints. That it is in your best interest to make sure that people know that you care about their feedback. It doesn’t mean that if somebody has some outlandish request, you are like, OK, well the customer says. So we are going to give them a free year, or whatever. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying, instead of ignoring people, you can use it to your advantage and answer them, and turn it into marketing.   (Mike) And it was like less than 5% of people that actually wanted something for free from their complaint. Most people just wanted to be heard, or some sort of resolution.  

[00:33:00] So, everybody, Jay Baer is excellent. He is the expert when it comes to customer service and using social media in order to really take that to another level. It’s been a pleasure having you on the show. Thanks so much for watching and listening. And we will see you next time. (Mike) Thank you so much for joining us today. If you liked this episode, then subscribe to our podcast on iTunes, Google Play, or Stitcher, and to our YouTube channel to never miss an episode. You can get all the links by going to Thanks and see you next time.    

[00:33:33] END  END END  

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